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Indian Woman Today

Hindu Universe Interactive: Hindu Women: Condition of Hindu Women Today: Indian Woman Today
By Sunil Laroiya (Sunil) on Friday, July 3, 1998 - 04:05 am:
I feel that the indian women are more independent today. athey themselves can earn for their family and can grow at their ownm.

But the most unfortunate thing is the young girls have started following western culture, specially in metros. They have forgotten their baisc ethics.
By Ajay Shah (Ajay) on Friday, July 3, 1998 - 01:59 pm:
The men should also take equal blame. Hindu men also follow the western culture blindly.

I believe that equal rules should apply to both men and women.

regards,

ajay
By Varun Aggarwal (Mumukshu13) on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 08:25 am:
Ajay is surely correct. The culture of India is in danger though being greater in ethics.
Varun
By Navin Kumar Singh (Navin) on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 03:20 am:
We should not worry this much.India has never been that good.
All these ethics ,yoga ,vedas etc have generally never been practicised in daily life . nowdays too, In how many schools such stuff is taught at basic lebel?

Childhood SANSHKARA vary much and equally matter for men and women.We should speed up the efforts for reducing the gap between two sexes.

Dwara,

Navin
navin@iitk.ac.in
By Navin Kumar Singh (Navin) on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 03:27 am:
ly matter for men and women.We should speed up the efforts for reducing the gap between two sexes.

Dwara,

Navin
navin@iitk.ac.in
By Varun Aggarwal (Mumukshu13) on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 12:38 pm:
dear Navin
The difference in crime rate of India & US reveals the greater culture, where service before self is the motto, where people have heart of gold, where no student do shooting in school, where love is defined as sacrifice ,AND ABOVE ALL VEGETARIANISM IS PRACTICED IN HIGHEST PERCENTAGEis India's culture. It is in our blood, we don't need to read Vedas for that. And if you are really serious about this just read GITA & that is enough. If you just view the relation between mother & child here & in foriegn it will all get clear.You said-India has never been that good-proove it. I can answer 80% of your questions if you think India's ethics are low. I can debate it to any extent.
Regards
Varun
By Ramu Ali (Ramu) on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 10:00 pm:
We can not accept what we have and not try to achive higher standards. Today we have Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Christians all fighting each other to prove that they are better then each other. We have Bharamins killing the untouchables. The rich devouring the poor. The goverment getting involved in a new scandles everyday. States after decades of unjustice want out and form new nations. India becoming the country with the highest number of AID's victims in the world by the year 2000 etc. When all this is going on who has time to consider the problems the female sex goes through. Yes, we have come a long way from the 'sati partha'(burning of the wife at her husbands death) but still does anyone have a count of the number of girls killed by abortions. Or how about the number of women killed for dowry. Has India really imporved or was it made to improve by this western culture that we all so hate. The 80% 'Hindu' in India has the responsiblites of leading this war against unjustice, but we leave this to the Jains, Sikhs, Muslims & Christians. Then we wonder why our(hindu) growth rate is going down where the growth rate of Sikhs, Muslims and Christians goes up day after day.
By Chaia on Wednesday, July 15, 1998 - 09:27 am:
Adding a different perspective - I am a 24 year old professional woman and have lived in London for most of my life. Here, women do have traditional values like those forementioned but due to living in a Western environment, have to adapt them. There are pressures to fit in with colleagues and socialise with them as well as keeping a family. You can easily forget your values but my parents have introduced Hinduism from an early age and I respect the religion and still uphold it. Family and Religion always comes first, then work and social life.
By Malaiappan Viswanathan (Mviswana) on Friday, July 17, 1998 - 06:05 pm:
To Ramu Ali:

Brahmins kill untouchables?? - they may have done this years ago. But I have never heard about this being the case in recent years. As a brahmin boy growing up in south india, all I have seen is that the brahmins are being discriminated at the every possible opportunity and the so called untouchables have the government programs protecting them and giving them the previleges.

The people (atleast in south india) who are getting benefited are "Upper caste hindus" who are not brahmins. Since they have the political majority, they control everything and everyone.

To say that brahmins kill untouchables is an outrageous statement.

malaiappan viswanathan
By Ramu Ali (Ramu) on Saturday, July 18, 1998 - 01:34 am:
Dear brother I am sorry for if I have hurt your feelings, my attempt is not to put anyone down. I have in my custody pictures of something that had happened in Utter Pardesh. This is not the place(topic) to talk about it. The pictures were taken only this March 18, 1998. There are many different poses of fourteen young Brahmin men standing above a stack of body parts(arms,legs,heads,torcels,etc.) that came from 25 untouchables who refused to be thought of as less human. Too bad for them I guess. Of course for anyone else reading this, this is not a everyday occurance but if anyone at all requires photo proof please leave your e-mail address so I could e-mail you as soon as possible(with full story)
By Yashodadd on Saturday, July 18, 1998 - 12:54 pm:
Unfortunately we have in crazy time where the crime has become every-day ritual all around the world.

I don't think that in that massacre that our Ramu is talking about - has any voice from the people or Indian government, or intelectuals, or leading priests. As we know, every now and then there is something called "paranoya" (just try to remember how Jimmy Jones killed himself and 914 people as a spiritual leader in Guyana in 1978). It comes from people who have no idea about spiritual life.
By Lakshmi on Monday, August 3, 1998 - 02:38 am:
I agree with Yashodadd. Show me a bramhin who has killed and I will show you a dozen non bramhins who have killed. These people have no idea about the meaning of life and its value.We should not put the blame on caste but on the people themselves who have performed the hideous crime. Religion and Caste are nothing but much needed reasons for the behaviour of individuals.

No religion or caste preaches one to hurt the other. Gita can be interpreted to mean that we should not put too much importance in ourselves and believe in God to direct everything. Or we could interpret that I will kill my enemy and God is behind my action.

In the same way value of Hinduism for women should be taken in the correct sense.As a hindu woman born and bred in Singapore, I have seen women adopting western culture and women adopting the Indian culture. Culture is not religion. Hinduism never said that Sati is good. The Indian culture misinterpreted the teaching that husband and wife are one and since husband is the dominant one, the wife should not live after the husband. Similarly the culture dictates the way we dress, the way we act. Hinduism does not. Hinduism teaches the value of life. We can be westernised but still be a Hindu at heart. Nothing prevents that. We recite slokas and read the vedas. We should do it if it brings us close to GOd. If we do not know slokas because we never had time to learn them as we were too busy being westernised, we can still say 'Hare Rama' with total belief and that does not make us any less a Hindu. All we need to understand is that we value every life on Earth and we should respect, forgive and forget and not hurt anyone intenetionally. That determines whether or not we are true Hindus.
By Seeta on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 08:44 pm:
I agree with Lakshmi. Its not the religion, but the human interpretion which makes it restrictive. Plus, I always disagree with generalizations as no one person is same as another.
By Vinay Agarwala (Vinaire) on Saturday, August 15, 1998 - 11:48 pm:
WOMEN AND SOCIETY

[Comments are invited on this article which was written many years ago by someone greatly admired by me. -- Vinaire]

The whole future of the race depends upon its attitude toward children; and a race that specializes in women for "menial purposes," or which believes that the contest of the sexes in the spheres of business and politics is a worthier endeavor than the creation of tomorrow's generation, is a race which is dying.

We have, in the woman who is an ambitious rival of the man in his own activities, a woman who is neglecting the most important mission she may have. A society which looks down upon this mission, and in which woman are taught anything but the management of a family, the care of men, and the creation of the future generation, is a society which is on its way out. The historian can peg the point where a society begins its sharpest decline at the instant when women begin to take part, on an equal footing with men, in political and business affairs; since this means that the men are decadent and the women are no longer women. This is not a sermon on the role or position of women: it is a statement of bald and basic fact. When children become unimportant to a society, that society has forfeited its future.

Even beyond the fathering and bearing and rearing of children, a human being does not seem to be complete without a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. This relationship is the vessel where in is nurtured the life force of both individuals, whereby they create the future of the race in body and thought. If man is to rise to greater heights, then woman must rise with him, or even before him. But she must rise as woman and not as today she is being misled into rising - as a man. It is the hideous joke of frustrated, unvirile men to make women over into the travesty of men which men themselves have become.

Men are difficult and troublesome creatures - but valuable. The creative care and handling of men is an artful and beautiful task. Those who would cheat women of their rightful place by making them into men should at last realize that by this action they are destroying not only the women but the men and children as well. This is too great a price to pay for being "modern" or for someone's petty anger or spite against the female sex.

The arts and skills of women, the creation and inspiration of which she is capable and which, here and there in isolated places in our culture, she still manages to effect in spite of the ruin and decay of man's world which spreads around her, must be brought newly and fully into life. These arts and skills and creation and inspiration are her beauty, just as she is the beauty of mankind.

The woman has to some degree become considered less valuable in this society than in other societies and times. She is expected to be in competition with men. Such a thing is nonsense. A woman has as high a plane of activity as man. He cannot compete with her any more than she can compete with him in the fields of structure and vigorous activity. Much of the social maelstrom now in existence has as its hub the failure to recognize the important role of the woman as a woman and the separation of the fields of women and men.

The changes which will come about in the next twenty years need no urging here. But with the recent discoveries in photosynthesis which should secure enough food to feed Man better and at less cost, the importance of birth control dwindles. The morality standards have already changed, no matter what moralist do to try to block the change. And woman, therefore, can be freed of many of her undesirable chains.

In the custody of Man is the current world and its activity and structure. In the charge of the woman is the care of the person of the human being and his children. Almost sole custodian of tomorrow's generation, she is entitled to much more respect than her chattel-period of the past gave her.

It is not, then, any wild Utopian thought that woman can be placed above the level hitherto occupied. And so she must be placed if the childhood of tomorrow's generation is to reach any high standard, if homes are to be peaceful and unharassed and if society is to advance.

By Lakshmi on Monday, August 17, 1998 - 05:58 am:
I hear what the writer says but beg to differ. There is no such thing like Man's job and woman's job. If it suits a family needs, then there is nothing wrong in having a woman wokr for a living and the man takes care of the home.... if they are good at it.

The problem is again our society frowns upon such an arrangement. As such, just like the caste system that holds certain groups down, women are held down by this sexual discrimination. A similar argument that justifies the caste system actually is presented by the article above. To justify the caste system our ancestors said that it was karma that dictates a person being born in a particular caste and he should follow his destiny performing the duties that belong to the respective caste. It took us a long time to understand that there is no such thing as a Brahmin job or a Sudra job. but having partially conquered that argument, we are faced today with a man's job and a woman's job.

Individuals should always do what they are good at what makes them happy so long as no one suffers as a result. A woman should stay home if she thinks that she will be a good mother and wife. But she should work if she feels that she could contribute better somewhere else... provided that her child is taken care of. But this reponsibility should be shared by the man and woman. Just because a child is borne by the woman does not make the child any less belonged to the man. In short all individuals should get a balance of what they are good at and should strive to excel in it with the thought always that no other individual is hurt in the process. That is the ideal situation and that is what all of us should strive to reach.
By Vinay Agarwala (Vinaire) on Monday, August 17, 1998 - 07:54 am:
This is from the article quoted:

"He cannot compete with her any more than she can compete with him in the fields of structure and vigorous activity."

I certainly wouldn't recommend women fighting on the front line in the armed forces, in the heavy steel industry pouring molten metal, or as a railroad worker laying heavy tracks.

What should be the priority for men? And, what should be the priority for women?
By Lakshmi on Tuesday, August 18, 1998 - 12:41 am:
I repeat, individuals should do what they are good at and are comfortable with. Not because they are men or women. For example, a weak man certainly will not be belonging in the frontline or on the railroad. Similary, there should be nothing that prevents a strong woman to be in the frontline of the armed forces and the railroad. In fact in case you do not know the Indian armed forces was taking orders from a woman not too long ago. And there are numerous women now in the frontline not only in the armed forces but also in the airforce and in the navy. Rather than to look at priority of men and women, you should perhaps look at priorities as individuals and let the individuals do what is best for themselves, their family and the society as a whole given the circumstances.

By Vinay Agarwala (Vinaire) on Tuesday, August 18, 1998 - 03:48 am:
I think we have two different issues getting mixed up here. The first issue is that of self-determinism. I am all for self-determinism. There is no argument there. Woman has as much a right to self-determinism as anybody else. That right is sacred.

If women in the past have been sobordinated and suppressed that is wrong. It shows the weakness in man that he has to put woman down in order to feel superior himself. The above article is pretty clear about it.

The point which is being missed is that you can covertly take self-determinism away from the woman by making her believe that the beingness of a woman is, by nature, inferior; and that she should act more like a man.

True self-determinism is able to think for yourself taking all the factors into account. When one is reacting to a situation one is not being truly self-determined.

It is important to understand the difference between action and reaction. In reaction one is being determined by what one is reacting to.
By Lakshmi on Tuesday, August 18, 1998 - 11:16 pm:
I think I made it pretty clear that one should do what one wants to do and what one is comfortable with.

All I said about reacting to a situation is to take everything around us into consideration and taking our self likes and dislikes into consideration when making a decision. Self determination is good as long as it does not cross the line of being selfish at the expense of your loved ones. You can take an action so long as it does not hurt anyone. But if your action is going to have undesirable effects on people around you then you need to react and that is not necessarily bad.

Let me give you and example. If a man wants to reach his heights in whatever ambition he has, he has to have a woman backing him up and taking care of the family. If he cannot find a woman because she too has her ambition, then he has to forego his ambition and share in taking care of the family. He may not reach his heights but he cares enough about his wife and children to forego his ambition. In this situation the society would blame the wife as she did not stand behind he man.
In another situation we have the wife who is reaching the heights. Now she has to have a man backing him up and taking care of the family. If the man is asked to forego his ambitions to help her reach her heights the society again blames the wife, this time for trying to be the man of the family.

That is where my problem is. Women are in a Lose- Lose situation. Even in your last reply, you say that women's right for self determinism is sacred but you contradict yourself when you say that women have been forced to be inferior and to react to that they had started to prove themselves by trying to 'act like man'.

But I ask you, 'What is the Act of Man and What is the act of Woman?'
Who determines this? How and when? It is not to take away self determinism for either but a joint consensus of men and women given a circumstance to do what is best for them. If reaction should not be a variable, then those men and women should stay single and achieve their objective. It is wrong for either party to force their view on their spouse. And there is absolutely no necessity for the woman to always give up what she wants for the family sake. Men should also learn to give up. Then there will be true happiness in the family. Else there will always be frustration on one side which is not good at all.
By Vinay Agarwala (Vinaire) on Tuesday, August 18, 1998 - 11:53 pm:
I don't think we are really disagreeing here. We are simply using the words differently.

I am using the word 'self-determination' to mean a person taking into consideration one's responsibility toward the survival of self, the family, the group, the mankind, etc. and then analytically determining for oneself what is most beneficial.

I am using the word 'react' to mean a push-button type behavior in which no thinking is involved. An example of a reaction would be you look at a black person and immediately regard him as your inferior. Or, you look at a certain type of food and immediately feel sick to your stomach.

What I stated was:

"The point which is being missed is that you can covertly take self-determinism away from the woman by making her believe that the beingness of a woman is, by nature, inferior; and that she should act more like a man."

And not what you interpreted it to mean.

The spheres of man and woman are complimentary rather than competitive. Neither of them is inferior. The society has a lot to learn.
By Kristina on Sunday, November 15, 1998 - 09:52 pm:
Greetings...I have greatly enjoyed the intellectual discussion above. I have recently been studying Hinduism as an offshoot of a college project and have found it fascinating. It is such a "living" religion. Being from America, I was especially struck by the quote:
"When children become unimportant to a society, that society has forfeited its future."
That quote seemed to hit me with a bang. It's powerful simplicity is beautiful. I have a question I thought maybe one of you could help me with. While studying India, I have been startled by its large population growth and rapidly rising cases of AIDS. I was curious if this was a product of Hinduism or if Hinduism has effected this in any way. Any information on this would be much appreciated. Thank you
By Vinaire on Sunday, November 15, 1998 - 11:09 pm:
Hello Kristina,

For your information that article which contains the quote, "When children become unimportant..." was written in early fifties by an American. It is truly a wonderful piece.

Yes, it is not Hinduism, but a decline in the understanding of Hinduism, that is responsible for the large population growth and the rapidly rising cases of AIDS.

Interestingly enough indiscriminate sex and overly procreation is indulged in by those who do not see much of a future ahead of them. So, more directly it is a consequence of social and perceived survival factors rather than religious.

More later,
Vinaire
By Chetan on Monday, November 23, 1998 - 03:35 pm:
Hi,

This has been an interesting conversation.

What about the Hindu Idea of Women as applicable today. I think in almost every age Hindu's have been representative of the most liberal thought.

I like the analogy given about marriage. That husband and wife work together as two wheels of a chariot.

I like this ideal and I think its the basis of most Hindu's on the concept of marriage.


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