Please see the guestbook today where some Australian converts have made an impassioned plea for spiritual guidance from Hindus. I request all of you to approach them and give them all the help you can. Please also encourage them to participate in this forum.

A month back, I had circulated a similar enquiry for spiritual help for a new Hindu at Melbourne, Australia. I am very disappointed to note that there was only one response. And this despite the fact that a senior VHP official forwarded my request to some Australian Hindus of Indian origin.Rather than fight here in the forum, let us give them happiness with the beauties of Hindu Dharma. I suggest that we should have some help group kind of a network on the web for providing constant spiritual guidance to neo-Hindus. I suggest that we can encourage them to participate in these forums. But this will obviously work only if we stop bickering amongs ourselves first.

If we behave in such a lethargic and unconcerned manner, we will never be able to spread the light of the Vedas in the world.

With great hope of some response

Vishal

Even though I will stand guilty as charged among others including Vishal for the crime of bickering, it is difficult to avoid bickering altogether specially on the topic of religion. I never log into the guestbook but if the parties interested would join this forum and jump in the fray, nay, in the passionate exchange of messages, they can surely benefit from Messrs Vishal, Jha, Mukunda, Bani, Vinaire, Ashegan, Ramesh @co.

I am also surprised that Vishal never responded to the repeated requests of Sri Suresh in one of the threads to which only Sri Mukunda and Sri Prem responded. I told Suresh that I was unable to answer his complex questions which needed advanced knowledge of Hindu scriptures.

it's great you're trying to bring mallecchas into the hindu fold, vishal... all luck to you..

Vishal,I totally agree with you.
If there is anyone living within the U.K who has "reawakened"(I dont like the word conversion) and wants to be "welcomed" into Hinduism,than e-mail for info.
from Arjun.

I never looked at the Guestbook and hence missed anything that was posted there. That was a mistake. I have read the message Sri Vishal has referred to and responded to that. I think it is better if the request for help is posted here so that those interested can put up their response. It might be useful next time in a similar situation. Here is the message requesting help.

HINDU'S OF THE WORLD UNITE HELP US!! I have signed this guestbook previously but only got a two responses ( VERY SADDENED & DISAPOINTED). Thankyou to those that wrote. I have recieved a lot of responses from other western converts all in the same situation as I am as outlined below.

We are new Hindu converts but are not of Indian,Asian or Sri Lanken origin. We are Anglo saxon. We wish to worship in a hindu temple but do no know what to do or expect. We also wish to make offerings at the temple to the deities how do we do this?. We are all currently worshipping at home with our personal shrines, in our own ways.Are we worshiping correctly? How do we know? We feel aliented and are embarrassed to ask what we should do in the temple to worship,we do not wish to offend by asking questions at the temple nor do we want to appear ignorant. We have asked questions at the temples, but people do not seem to understand what whe want to know, this is embarrassing for us.

We unfortunately were not born Hindu's and do not have the priviledge, to be born into a hindu family and taught how to worhip in a temple from childhood.

Please help us and share with us your knowledge of these subjects. Please share your personal methods of temple worship, home worship and prayer or just tell us how to do it and what to do? There is a terrible lack of knowledge on this subject!! Due to the fact that it is taught by the family to the child. What about new western converts, what should we do where do we get this information from? Are there any books with this specific information? Come on please everyone pitch in and please help us. Surely there is a wealth of information out there, that you would love to share with fellow New Hindu's who need your help urgently. Please write to us at the above e mail address.Hopefully we will get more than just two responses this time. God bless all of you for your help! We really need it.

The response can be given here or sent directly to

seekingknowledge@hinduweb.org

My response

Dear friends,

I am sorry that I couldn't respond to you last time. Please understand that most people visiting Hindu Universe visit the Interactive Forums, ask questions or respond there. Please put any question that you may have at this forum, by starting a new topic if that suits you better. I am sure you will get many responses. Right now I am going to put your message in the forum at

http://www.hindunet.org/forum/discus/messages/41/666.html?ThursdayDecember1619990806pm

My response to your questions, given below, will also be posted after your message.

Q: We wish to worship in a hindu temple but do no know what to do or expect.
A: Go to the temple, take off your shoes (some temples also ask for taking off such leather items as bags and belts), wash your feet and hands, buy some flowers and other items specific to the deity the temple is dedicated to (this is optional. Most temples have stalls that sell the items recommended for worshipping at that temple). Now you are ready to enter the temple.

Enter the temple, place the items (optional) brought in before the deity or give it to the priest there. Bow before the deity in obeisance, close your eyes, empty your mind of all thoughts and try to meditate on the deity. Take the prasad (ususally something sweet), panchamrit (specially prepared liquid mixture) and flowers as blessings from the deity and move out of the temple.

That usually completes a visit to a temple. Some people might like to site down in the the temple premise to meditate or listen to some saints if present there.

Q: We also wish to make offerings at the temple to the deities how do we do this?
A: The above partially answers that. Please understand that the best offering is that of one's ego (ahamkaar) and fruits of all of one's actions (karma). You can make monetary donations in the box designated for the purpose. You can also help those in need around the temple in whatever way you can.

Q: We are all currently worshipping at home with our personal shrines, in our own ways. Are we worshiping correctly? How do we know?
A: With a heart full of devotion, all methods for reaching the God through the deity is good. I will try to find some material on this and email you within a couple of days.

Q: We feel aliented and are embarrassed to ask what we should do in the temple to worship, we do not wish to offend by asking questions at the temple nor do we want to appear ignorant.
A: You are not at all alienated. You are one with mankind and with this cosmos. Please understand that most Hindus require help from priests at the temple for performing puja (worship) at the temple. There is nothing offensive or embarrassing about it.

Q: We have asked questions at the temples, but people do not seem to understand what whe want to know, this is embarrassing for us.
A: Perhaps they are themselves not very well aware of the temple rituals. Please ask the priest there. One of the best way is to follow those devotees who seem to be knowing how to do it.

Q: We unfortunately were not born Hindu's and do not have the priviledge, to be born into a hindu family and taught how to worhip in a temple from childhood.
A: There is absolutely nothing to feel unfortunate about. It is not where one is born that makes the difference. One's actions (karma), knowledge (jnana) and devotion (bhakti) makes the difference.

Q: Please help us and share with us your knowledge of these subjects. Please share your personal methods of temple worship, home worship and prayer or just tell us how to do it and what to do?
A: Please understand that worshiping at the temple is only a tiny part of rituals which itself is just one part of Hinduism. Please try to learn from books and discussion at the Hindunet Forums about the essence of Hinduism. I will soon email you material on worship (puja)

Q: What about new western converts, what should we do where do we get this information from? Are there any books with this specific information?
A: There is so much information available on the internet. You can find a lot through Hindu Universe site itself. Please let me know what literature you have. I will then send you some reference that you might find useful.

Q: Come on please everyone pitch in and please help us. Surely there is a wealth of information out there, that you would love to share with fellow New Hindu's who need your help urgently.
A: You can certainly count on my personal best efforts. Please feel free to contact me personally and I can assure you of my most sincere response.

Best regards.

My second email

You can find some very good information at the Indiatime Religionlink site at

http://www.indiatime.com/religion/hinduism.htm

You may find the following books of use

(1) Am I A Hindu?/the Hinduism Primer by Ed Viswanathan. This book can be purchased from amazon.com at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879904063/qid=945390214/sr=1-1/103-3438294-4487009

(1) Daily Religious Rites of the Hindus by SWAMI VEDANANDA

Those who are interested in Hindu Dharma, and those who want to know about its rituals will find the present work indispensable.

The author deals with the religious practices, observances and rituals. when, how and where certain rituals are to be performed, is clearly discussed. Benefits of Divine Communion are given special emphasis.

Contents: The Divine National-Builder - Resurrection of the Hindus - The Daily Procedure for Vedic 'Sandhya-Vandana' - Vedic Havana - Pancha-Yajna-Vidhi - Some Questions and answers on Hinduism - Tarpan Vidhi - Practical - Basic Principles of Hinduism - The Shiva Puja - Sivastakam.

Please visit http://www.sukhdai.com/hindusim.htm#AGNI PURANA

for more details and ordering information on this book.

(3) Hinduism Today is an excellent "monthly magazine affirming Sanatan Dharma and recording the modern history of a billion-strong global religion in renaissance." This magazine is available online at

http://www.saivasiddhanta.com/htoday.html

Please do not hesitate to contact me personally if you need.

I few months ago, a Christian student asked me a few questions and I sent him the following answers. I hope that Hindus find these useful as well.

Vishal
_________________________________

1. How am I to know the truth?
1. In the Hindu text Gita, Lord Krishna said that the scriptures should be our guide in deciding what is good and what is wrong. In addition, we should depend on the teachings of wise and holy men and also our own conscience. According to Hinduism, we should test the veracity of all things by direct perception, inference and verbal testimony (the last includes scriptures). These three means are called ‘Pramanas’ or the proofs of knowledge. For Hindus, the four Vedas (Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samaveda and Atharvaveda) are the scriptures and all that is in these 4 books and all that is in other books in agreement with the 4 books is truth. If we come across something that is in contradiction to a Vedic teaching, it is considered false and that which does not have a parellel in the Vedas is considered good as long as it does not contradict the letter or spirit of the Vedas. The Vedas however say that the real nature of Truth cannot be learnt from books but is something that is realized by us within ourselves. In this sense, the Vedas themselves have their own limitations but this is due to the intrinsic nature of truth itself.


2. How do you view God?
2. God is the all-pervading conscious entity who oversees the creation, preservation, destruction of the Universe, who monitors our deeds and gives us the fruits of our actions, who reveals the scriptures for our salvation, who grants us salvation and eternal communion with Him when we are liberated. God is all pervading, eternal, unchangeable, unborn, formless, uniform, Holy, pure and so on. His glory is manifested in the whole of the Universe comprising of insenitent as well as senitent things. He is impersonal because of the attributes mentioned earlier, and also personal because he is capable of relating to each individual personally, due to His impersonal attributes of omnipotence, all pervadingness and so on.

3. How do you view Gods? Are the many deities merely symbolic aspects of one great God, or is each deity a separate entity?
3. Our scriptures use the word ‘devata’ or ‘deva’ for gods. The root meaning of this word is ‘The shining ones, or they who grant something, or the virtuous ones.’ Accordingly, the devatas mean all of the following:
a. God, who is One, is the true devata, because he is the most luminous entity, he is the true giver of everything and is is the repository of all virtues. Therefore, God is sometimes called ‘Mahadeva’ or the great deva.
b. Hindu scriptures speak of 14 levels of animate creation. Man is 7th from the bottom and all the other 7 levels of beings above us are called devas collectively. These beings are at a spiritually more advanced state than human beings and might be likened to ‘angels’ in Christianity. Just as we respect our elders and wise men, similarly we should respect these devas.
c. Saints, sages, holy men etc are also sometimes called devas or gods.
d. Just as a single person is address as son, father, brother, brother-in-law by different people, so also, we can address the one God in any ways because we have so many relationships with him (creator, father, mother, brother, teacher, guide etc.). Each of these aspects of God is equally true and is a deva in itself.
e. God performs so many multifarious functions like creation, preservation and so on and the various gods represent symbolically these various functions of God.
f. According to Hindu belief, the whole Universe is animated by souls just as our own body is aninamted by a soul. Some souls, due to their exemplary conduct, animate the sun, the moon and so on. Therefore, these natural cosmic bodies are also considered living creatures like us and we respect them by worshipping them.
g. Natural powers like Sun, clouds etc. give us so much and so we should treat them with respect. These are also devas. Worshipping them does not constitute disrespect to God since He alone is the Being who receives all our prayers. When we praise a painting, we actually praise the person who has done the painting. Similarly, when we worship the various divine powers, we are actually praising God. A very famous Hindu saying is- “As every drop that falls from the sky eventually reaches the ocean, prayers to every devata eventually reach the Supreme”

We must keep in mind that all the devatas of gods are dependent on God for their very existence and sustenance and they grant boons and favors only through God. We shoulfd rise above the worship of devatas and worship God who is the true Devata.

God in reality is not in need of our flattery, it is we who gain by praising Him. Also, God is not a jealous or a vindictive being who will be nasty to us if we do not worship him or if we worship him indirectly. The entire creation derives its properties and existence from God. Therefore, true and perfect worship comprises in realizing Him in totality and not in confining him in some form or concept that has spatial limitations. It is in this respect that worshipping him in Icons (or idols) is not a sin (since God is not vindictive) and is in spiritually elevating, but only to an extent. If aspire perfection,we ought to realize him as a Soul within and outside our soul, and the entire creation.

4. Do you identify with any particular god?
4. Most of my prayers are addressed just to God. I use names of several gods but normally I donot think of them while worshipping. Often however, I imagine the Vaishnava gods (Rama Krishna and Vishnu) even though the temple in my home does not have any picture of them. We have pictures of Ganesha, Saraswati, Laxmi and Shiva at our home. I think I have a soft corner for Vaishnava gods because I relate mentally to them to a greater extent.

5. Meaning of the phrase ‘Atman is Brahman”
5. The words ‘Ayam atma Brahman” occurs in the Taittiriya Upanishad and is one of the four ‘Mahavakyas’ (great utterances) of Hindu texts. While Christianity believes that man is burdened with original sin, Hinduism says the opposite. We believe that man is an amalgam of soul and the inanimate matter and that it is the former that is the essence of man. All evil and good karmas, defects etc. attach to the latter in reality. Man must realize the truth that he is in essence pure soul that is in bondage because of contraction of its knowledge or because of delusion. The soul of a man is identical to ‘Brahman’ or the Supreme Soul (God) and when man realizes this truth, the fetters of delusion shatter and the soul becomes free or liberated in eternal communion with Brahman, who is an ocean of Bliss. In this liberated state, the soul actually attains its natural state, which is the same as that of Brahman. Therefore, the teaching “Atma is Brahman” is meant to motivate man to overcome the pleasures of his flesh and grow beyond the confines of his mortal body and realize that he is something more that is transcedental in nature, just like Brahman, the supreme being. This and other such statements are like the encouraging things that our parents and teachers say to us to embolden us and make us more strong for facing the problems of life and become successful.

6. Hindu denominations
6. Firstly, to my knowledge, all Smarta Hindus are Shaivas. Basically, Smarta Hindus are those who follows the codes discussed in the Smriti texts that are linked to the Vedas while Vaishnava, Shaiva and Shakta Hindus are those who worship God as Vishnu, Shiva and Shakti respectively. The smarta Hindus follow the codes of Smritis but worship Shiva and are therefore classified as Shaiva Hindus. I can say this from personal acquaitence with several smarta Hindus who are shaivas. Most Hindus however do not classify themselves under the 3 categories and worship God in all the forms and follow and misture of rituals. I myself do not consider myself as a member of any of these sects and go to all temples. Thus a Shaiva Hindu predominantly worships Lord Shiva but will also worship Vishnu etc. and also celebrate the Vaishnava festivals. The same can be said about the other two. In a small part of South India however, Vaishanava Hindus do not observe Shaiva customs and consider themselves as superior to Shaivas. As far as my personal beliefs are concerned, I subscribe myself to the Vedas, Upanishads, Smritis etc. which are non-sectarian texts regarded as authoritative by all Hindus. I read the sectarian texts also but reject all that is opposed to the Vedas and is too sectarian.

7. Fundamental difference between Christianity and Hinduism
7. a. Hindus deny the exclusivesness of Christ as the only son of God. We can accept him as ‘a’ son of God but not ‘the’ son of God.
b. We do not regard the Bible as the word of God although it may have been the inspiration of Holy men.
c. We believe in rebirth and reincarnation and also in the Karma theory.
d. We donot subscribe to the view that the world was created out of nothing. Creation is viewed by us merely as the manifestaion of pre-existing stuff.
e. We believe that this is not the first creation nor is this the last creation. The cycle of creation-destruction-creation is beginningless and endless.
f. Heaven is not the desireable goal of men and there is not permanent and eternal Heaven and Hell. Such places are only temporary and the state of salvation is of pure bliss and does not involve confinement to a place called ‘Heaven’.
g. Direct realization of truth and not mere belief can lead to salvation. Right belief is conducive to realization but is not sufficient in itself while in Christianity, belief that Jesus died for our sins is sufficient for reaching Heaven (when combined with good actions). In Hinduism, good actions and right beliefs help in realization of the Truth which itself leads to salvation.
h.As long as person’s intentions are honest and sincere, he is not penalized by God for his wring beliefs. As Lord Krishna says in the Gita--”I assure you that even if you do something wrong but in good faith and with good intentions, you will not suffer for no good action can produce a bad result.”
I. Hinduism asks us to overcome the tendency of desiring good fruits of our good actions. We should do good deeds because they are the command of scriptures and ought to be done. We should not desire the fruit of our actions.
j. There are no chosen people (like Israelites in the Bible) and there never were.

8. What does Hinduism offer that Christianity does not? How do you view Christianity?
8. Hinduism acknowledges the entire range of the religious and spiritual experience of man --ethics, philosophy, theology, belief in sanctity of life in general. Hinduism is Universal, eternal in nature and its ideas are not geocentric or focussed around a person limited by space and time as in Christianity. It does not have to seek the assistance of something of this world for conveying its message since the Vedic teachings are not specific to any region or any period of time. Christianity on the other hand, revolves around Christ, whose character is not perfect according to a Hindu like me. Jesus uses fear psychology to attract people to his doctrine, some of his teachings are self deception (like we should not care to clothe ourselves--a teaching that cannot be practiced by parents who have children), his cursing of the fig tree was not a good thing, he was rude to his mother, he used foul language against people and was not a good guest (was rude to his host who asked him to wash the outside of the cup) and so on. Besides, the concept of Satan in Christianity lacks logic and coherence. In the Old testament, we see Jehovah killing 1000’s of innocent Egyptain children, deceiving and duping Job and ask Abraham to commit adultery and then asking him to turn out pregnant Hagar. Such things will not be done by any sensible human being, how can a ‘loving God’ do such things then? However, the Bible does have several good teachings and the same are acceptable to me as a Hindu. In fact, I am obliged to have respect for the good teachings of the Bible and reject what is bad. From a Hindu persepective, Christianity has only a part of the Truth which is erroneously extrapolated as Complete Truth by Christians.

9. Conversion of Non-Hindus to Hinduism
9. The statement ‘Truth is one....” occurs in Rigveda 1.164.46
It means that often, the same truth is expressed in many ways and therefore, rather than controverting the faith of others, we should focuss on the underlying truth on the teachings rather than becoming pre-occupied by the apparent differences. Basically it means that all the following equations are true:
1 + 1 = 2
2 + 0 = 2
4 - 2 = 2
6 - 4 = 2

and so on. So, there are many ways of expressing the same truth and in a similar manner, God can be described and realized in many ways. The verse in question reads:
“Indram mitram varunam agnimanhuh ratho divyah suparno gurutman
Ekan sadvipra bahudha vadantyagnim yaman martisvanamahuh.”
(Indra i.e, the Splendid One, Mitram i.e. the Friend of all; Varuna i.e. the Holy One; Agni i.e. He who leads to Truth, Ratho divyah i.e. the all pervading; Suparno i.e. He Who has reached the farthest corners of the Universe; Gurutman i.e. the Infinite; Yama i.e. the Controller; Matrisvan, i.e. All Pervading--the One Leading Light, the Ultimate Truth is all this referred to as variously by wise men.”)

This does not mean however that falsehood is also truth. Thus, 2 + 2 is not equal to 2.

Traditionally, Hindus have believed in this dictum literally and have tried to have an eclectic and catholic view in spiritual matters. In addition, they believed that one could only be born as Hindu and non-Hindus cannot convert to Hindus but can only be reborn as Hindus if they do good deeds in this life. And it is this latter belief that primarily prevented Hindus from seeking converts historically.

In modern times however, the verse from Rigveda has gained a wide currency amongst Hindus, priamrily due to its popularity with Mahatma Gandhi and other Hindu reformers and therefore modern Hindus say that they do not convert others to their religion because of this verse which says that all religions equally true.

Really speaking, this interpretation of the verse by modern Hindus is false and I for one do not accept it since there are genuine differences in the religions. I believe that we must convert others to our religion so that they can be exposed to the entire range of ethics and spirituality that we possess.

I think that the Hindu belief that one does not go to Hell automatically because one is not a Hindu is the right belief. As a good person, I would like to love all fellow Human beings genuinely and I cannot profess to do that faithfully if I say to Christians--” Dear brother, I really love you but you will go to Hell because you are not a Hindu.” That is exactly what Christians do. I was told by a Baptist Minister that Mahtma Gandhi will go to Hell because he did not confess that Jesus was the only son of God. Hinduism thus allows us to assimilate the good points of all faiths and also allows us to love all Human beings genuinely without distinguishing them on grounds of their religion. I think this is one aspect of Hinduism I am really proud of and whenever Christians ask me where they will go after death, I tell them that if they are virutuous ad good intentioned, they will go to the same place where a virtuous Hindu will go. I think that the Christian God is not really loving because his love is conditioned to the belief that Jesus is his son and that he died for our sins. True love should be non-conditional and universal and Hinduism teaches us to transcedent the boundaries of time and space. This teaching of Hinduism is also in consonance with the modern empahsis on diversity.

Another reason why even secular Hindus abhor conversions is that historically, conversions have lead to fights and violence and we do not want to contribute to this by converting others like Christians and Muslims do. What a person is is more important than what his religion is and human beings are not sheep that need to branded Christian1, Christian2 and so on and they are not fishes that should be ensared into nets.

Hindus often remark that it is better if a Christian becomes a good Christian than if he becomes a bad Hindu because the underlying assumtion on the part of Hindus is that all religions teach the same Universal principles as Hinduism does (whereas this is not really the case).

10: Why do most Hindus practice Vegetariansm
10. Most Hindus are NOT vegetarians. Only 25% are vegetarians. The proportion of vegetarians varies in different parts of India. Areas in which the Vaishnava sect is very strong like in Gujarat and Uttar Pradesh, vegetarians are probably in a majority. Even otherwise, Hindus who are non-vegetarians eat very little meat since by and large, meat eating, drinking alochol is considered bad by Hindus. I am a vegetarian since I was 7, when I saw someone slaughter a chicken for food. The sight revulsed me so much that I gave up meat. My parents, who are meat eaters, were very annoyed but I held my ground. I view vegetariansim as an important part of Hinduism because our scriptures say that not only Humans but all living creatures should be treated with compassion and we should not harm them. Since I must eat plants in order to live, I have decided to spare the animals of all the pain that I cause by killing them for food, when I can completely satisfy my nutrional requirements by avoiding meat. Besides, according to our scriptures, a person desirous of salvation should avoid meat because meat tends to make us more restless and aggressive, qualities that hinder us from practicing meditation and other spiritual disciplines. In technical parlance, meat is considered as ‘Rajasic.’

May God bless you in your endeavours!

Shri Vishal,

I have heard that In certain Yagnas in the Veda, Animals slaughter is allowed.(For Eg.Aswamedha).
I cannot understand why Vedic seers with real attitude of Ahimsa allowed this?
Could you please explain. - Hari Om

in his satyarth prakash, swami dayanand saraswati explained that the vedic religion had no ritual sacrifice of innocent animals to appease the almighty... the reason that practises like ashvamedha were mistakenly said to be 'horse-sacrifice' is that later indian scholars and groups like the vama margis and western ones like max muller had faulty knowledge of chaandas...

the true shastras make no mention of slaughtering animals as part of yajna... shatapatha brahmana tells us that

'when a king governs his people justly and righteously, this is called ashvamedha'

'when a learned man gives the free gift of knowledge to the people, that is called ashvamedha'

'the burning of clarified butter and odiferous/nutritious substances substances in the fire to purify the air (homa) is also called ashvamedha'

-shatpath. xiii. 1,6,3

similarly gomedha and narmedha were wrongly taken to mean cow-sacrifice and human-sacrifice!

but when investigating we see that:

'to keep food pure or to keep the senses under control, or to make good use of the rays of the sun, or to keep the earth clean and free from impurities, that is called gomedha'

-shatpath iv 1,26

like most words in vedic context, there is an adhibhautik and adhyatmik meaning -
exoterically, gomedha means the plowing of land for agriculture (gau refers to 'earth' as well as 'cow')
esoterically, it means controlling one's senses...

similarly, even in our sister religion, the zarathustris write about geush urva in the avesta.. that too is explained as cutting and dividing the soil and making the earth fertile...
in greek, the cognate word 'ge' means earth as well...

according to shatpatha, 'cremation of the dead body in accordance with vedik principles is narmedha'...

hence be wary of interpretations of the vedas by the westerners... vedas teach love and respect for all the dvipade and chatushpade... we pray for their welfare... homa is meant to increase peace and harmony, not to bring screams from harmless animals getting their throats slit...

Ashegan,

Appropos your post dated December 16, I think it is totally wrong to use terms like Asura, Dasyu, Mleccha etc. for Non-Hindus. One of the things we Hindus are proud of is the fact that Hinduism is a Universal and an Eternal religion with a broad vision. We should not, therefore, use terms analogous to infidels, Kafirs etc. for Non-Hindus. Hinduism believes that a person does not automatically becomes good if he is a Hindu. Conversally, he does not automatically become bad if he is a Non-Hindu. Conversion to Hinduism however, opens the doors to complete spirituality and wisdom, while allowing the neo-Hindu to accept good things learnt from his old religion. Outside India, it also increases the chances that the progeny of neo-Hindus will be more receptive to the spirituality of Hinduism. Such a luxury is not allowed when a Hindu converts to other religions. In fact, I prefer the VHP term 'Paravartan' for conversion, than Shuddhi.

Hope you agree to my suggestion

Best wishes

Vishal

Dear Sri Murali Rao,

Appropos your post dated December 15, I did not respond to questions directed to me because of lack of time. At any given moment, my mailbox is flooded with questions from all over and I am unable to prioritize the replies, although I try to reply to non Hindus interested in our Dharma (and foreign students doing their term papers etc.) first. For that matter, there were older Q's on the forum directed to me and to which I had not responded (Eg. Ashegan's Q on Vedic Rishis, Smt. Maitra's Q on the Taco Bell controversy, and Sri Jha's Q on Upanayan etc.)

As you know, I have a full time job and am a part time student (with a full time course load) and am really pressed for time. My current semester will be over once I do a HW this weekend and will be tied up in helping a friend set up a website on Samkhya thereafter.

Please update your user profile and add your email address so that I can respond to such questions from your personally.

Best wishes

Vishal

Dear Vishal,

First of all let me congratulate you for your message made to a self styled "arya". The reason for the bickerings have been because of the racist mentality of the so called "aryas" who look down upon members of other races by calling them all sorts of names ( to which you have rightly objected) and feel they are unclean and lowly. This I have objected to in many messages which you have called as bickerings. I had thought of adding a stinging message for the use of the word "malleccha" but thought otherwise. I am surprised my friend Vinaire had nothing to say to them on this matter. In fact how would the convert Hindus feel if they drop in to this forum and notice that they have been termed as "mallecchas". I feel the self styled "aryas" are devoid of any common sense whatsoever. They may be experts in Vedanta, but what use is such knowledge if their behavior is contrary to the teachings of vedanta?

As for the efforts of yours and Sri Jha's they are mind boggling and highly commendable. Kudos to both of you. I will be one among many others to acknowledge both you and Jha.

Fondly

Dear Vishal,

I will add my e-mail address if you insist. I took it out because I got a few obscene messages at home. I would rather they posted such messages over here so everyone can read them.

Dear Murali,

I really am not quite sure why you are accusing Ramesh and Ashegan for racism. I think you have totally misunderstood the message of Arya Samaj.

Their message is one of reform of Hinduism, and they are very clear about the kind of reform they are seeking. Any intelligent person can grasp it without any difficulty from the eloquent posts written by Ashegan under the thread ARYA AND SANATANAS. Please don't try to deliberately distort their message. The above criticism from you cannot be called constructive.

As regards the use of terms, such as, Asura, Dasyu, Mleccha etc. for Non-Hindus, I am not in favor of them at all. I thought Ashegan was using them to humor other Hindus on this forum, who are also very intolerant of non-Hindus, especially, Muslims and Christians. All that intolerance is recorded quite extensively in this forum.

I am sure that if this issue is brought to the attention of Ashegan and Ramesh, they would have no problem in dropping the use of such terms which are now being viewed as derogatory by other Hindus on this forum.

I am glad to see this change of attitude toward non-Hindus on this forum. This is definitely an improvement.

Dear Vinaire,

The objective of Arya Samaj is constructive and holy. But the two "aryas" in this forum are qustionable. I am positive that they are decent human beings but their attitude towards others needs correction. They belittle and offend the religious beliefs of others and call themselves aryas. We just have different opinions in this matter and are voicing it. I am not doing it in an insulting way. I did once, but that message has been deleted since. You always excuse others who make fun of Sanathana Dharma. You give excuses in their defence. But when Narad made fun of Scientology you had them deleted. Personally I don't take sides because I like someone. I love Truth. I love you. There are imperfections in me which are also Truth. We are just saying what we feel is correct, but I could be wrong and there are many of you can correct me. But I am surprised that both you and Ashegan continue to forgive Ramesh for his offences. But they are your choices. Eloquent posts mean nothing if they have no compassion and respect toward the beliefs of others and keep hurting them constantly.

Sri.Vishal,How to get access to Guest Book?-SSR

Dear Murali,

I am afraid to say this but I see the situation very differently from you. Ramesh's approach is certainly abrasive, but recently I find that he is going more easy. Ashegan's approach is certainly very constructive, and I am really surprised that you can’t see that.

Somehow, these two have ticked you off and you have made up your mind against them. It seems that when you don't like something or somebody, you go out of your way to find fault in that person or thing.

Again you are totally distorting what they have been saying. Neither they, nor I, have made fun of Sanatana Dharma as you seem to be indicating. Also, you are distorting the Narad’s situation and making a big deal out of it. Why are you so interested in putting down the Free Thinkers Forum?

Why don’t we get on with more constructive issues?

Dear Vinaire,

I did not say you made fun of sanathana dharma. I am not putting down free thinkers forum. If I find anything wrong with this forum I will say so without hesitation. I have done so in the past disapproving the deletion of your messages and got into a tiff with Vishal. I need not have bothered to do that but I did. A question was posed about Free Thinkers and I answered it honestly without covering up anything. All we have do is to look at the mistakes and correct them. Nobody is perfect.

Thank you, Murali.

The mistakes shall be corrected.

I now look forward to a very bright future for the Hindu thought that shines most brightly in the Vedas.

I feel in my bones that this is bound to happen in the new millenium.

Likewise dearest Vinaire, let us fearlessly express our thoughts and humbly correct our mistakes. Whenever you oppose my views I will humbly receive them as words from God as a true Hindu. Even my parents and wife have disagreed with me and admonished me many times for my shortcomings but I love them as Gods.

Fondly

sri vishal, thank you for the advice on terminology.. i thought the hindus here who were often rabid against the christians and muslims in previous threads regarding conversion issues would not feel offended by the use of dasyu and mallecha..

personally i see the words in a double meaning.. dasyuun as a plural i take to mean followers of other religions and not necessarily evil.. that is one of the definitions i had read in swamiji's aryabhivanaya (people who do not follow the vedic religion).. i didn't mean to harm anybody's feelings by that.. i just wanted to find a term of differentiation in sanskrit for people outside the hindu dharma... i didn't mean for it to be a racial term at all... and i'm sorry if some took it to mean that.. i will try to find another word... like 'non-hindu' :)

sri vinaire despite every attempt i've made to stimulate constructive dialogue and interaction, some seem to close up more and more... may god almighty forgive me for turning the minds of others into anti-arya samajist bile and hatred, which even if denied by those in question, is blatent in its emotion and bared teeth of aggression...

and i'm surprised at the label of 'racist' as well... i'm born an indian to two indian parents who all were also of indian descent and going back as far as i can remember.. it would actually be very funny if i had to have reservations regarding brown faces and black hair :)... arya samaj is a movement born on indian soil, followed by indians and does its work of charity and goodwill primarily amongst indians.. and in my country we range from europeans to curly-haired africans in our diversity... they are all my brothers in faith, and may i be struck down if i look upon as any lower than myself... if i was racist i wouldn't have survived this long in my country...
i hope i can divert that 'racism' card with this short response...

sri vinaire, a wise man who visited us recently warned me about this... that people would retreat into mental fortresses and blinded by anger to all the white flags you're trying to wave at them will continue the flaming arrows and cauldrons of boiling oil... i have tried... the effort to build a lasting peace in the name of dialogue and plain old discourse has fatigued these not-so-nimble fingers...

i have tried to write with due deference to others, but not without challenge and a soupcon of much needed controversy... if pasting a smile and nodding in agreement to what everybody says and suggests is what people think is constructive and holy, i will always be offensive for the rest of my days...

i find it ironic in an amusing way that i've been now granted the plaque of having no common sense... if that is not what i've been pleading for and speaking about for the last few days, i wonder what possessed me to believe so... as i told jha earlier, i didn't come looking for enemies (even though it seems i've made quite a few)...
but some take pleasure in what i call 'selective reading'... what they want to hear is that arya samaj is fanatical and wants to burn puraans and anything they hold dear, that we are a clanish cult ruthless in our resolve to get new blood... and as my english teacher once told me, if you want to read something into a text, your mind will find a way of working it into the least related references...

believe it or not, i'm not as frazzled with shouting out the same old clarion call from the minar of my keyboard... i only pray for strength to endure and eventually bring about a better understanding between people...

The following book gives very accurate and practical information on how a non Indian Hindu should interact with Indian Hindus in different situations:

Title: How to be a Perfect Stranger (Vol 1)
ISBN: 1-879045-39-7(HC)
Editors: J. Magida and Stuart M. Matlins
Publisher: Skylight Paths Publishing
Year:1999

This book can be recommended safely for Anglo Saxons interested in the Hindu (or other) religious traditions.

Best wishes

Vishal

Dear Ashegan,

You are not a racist and you are not against Hindu Dharma by any means. That is what my assessment is from what you have written.

The allegations against you are from those who do not understand you and who do not want to understand you. In the absence of understanding they can only REACT.

I gave a definition of BLIND FAITH elsewhere as follows:

BLIND FAITH: Misinterpreting the Truth, then believing in that misinterpretation of the Truth, and then showing no willingness to examine it anew.

These antagonists are reacting against you because they are not willing to examine what you and Ramesh are pointing to.

The situation then becomes, “How do you help somebody overcome their unwillingness to examine the Truth?”

That is a whole different subject. I may address that subject on Free Thinkers Forum.

Believe me, I have been through this many many times. Even you misunderstood me at one time on this very forum. Remember?

vinaire, i feel somehow that those who are most aggressive in their defence and most blindly patriotic to their ways are the ones that have forgotten that the hindu dharma is a living tradition.. that the time has not ended for religion to be re-evaluated and thought over...

the upanishads, the buddhist and jaina faiths, even the bhakti movement that brings tears to their eyes were initially somewhat of a revolution against a pharisaical orthodoxy...
eg. there's an upanishad that describes those brahmins who clung blindly to mechanical traditions and refused to recognise the essence of faith, as dogs holding on to each others tails chanting 'om let us eat, om let us drink, oh lord of food, bring us food, bring it here, bring it'...

it is quite comical when you think about it... the rishis that sat under banyan trees discoursing on the nature of god and life were not the stodgy pundits and well-fed priests that lived off the status quo.. they were sort of (excuse the term) rebels against a dry form of religion, that some felt should not be changed at all...

the very faith that the hindus here defend with such passion and loyalty was probably a revolutionary movement in its own time..
that is what i fear for arya samaj.. may we never come to the level of those that feel the time for constructive criticism and change is over, and that we must all sit with faces quiet and agreeable like painted porcelain dolls and blindly accept the ways of our fathers unquestioningly...

maybe if they ever found out about this proud history of never lying down and being complacent and indolent, of rising up in challenge to the orthodoxy of the day and re-examining the holy canon, they wouldn't be so shuttered up in this suspicious 'hawa mahal'... only peeking out when they choose to make some rude hand gestures, and never bothering to really respond...

ps: dasyuun in aryabhivanaya (anthology of vedic hymns) are described as 'the degenerate, robbers, thieves or unbelievers' and is derived from the root 'das' - to 'perish' (either physically/emotionally through karma and the hand of god or spiritually by following a misleading teaching)
according to the yaska nirukta (vii 23,1) a dasyu is also 'one who through his inferior actions impairs the social strength of the masses'... hence by following a religion that impedes progress by adharmik teachings, impediments to progress are also caused...

furthermore, rgved (6-22-10) prays to the almighty to give glory by which the dasyus can become aryas, that is, changing the dasyus to cultured human beings. considering that aryas were followers of the vedic religion, dasyu can be interpreted to mean people of other faiths... i agree that words like mallecha and kavimukha etc. have been historically racist, but i'm sure dasyu can be excused merely as a word of religious differentiation...

i accept that to a muslim i am a kaafir, and that to a jew i'm a goy... they are just words to demonstrate a basic difference.. it does not make me feel bitter or inferior to my muslim and jewish friends...
i write primarily as an arya samajist, and i feel that it is only fair that we are allowed to have a vernacular term for people that do not follow the vedic religion, as justified by my religious authorities... if the word is used in good faith, without hostility or feelings of superiority, it surely can be condoned...

i think if this issue is clarified, there shouldn't be a problem with using the term as sanskrit vocabulary, provided that the context in which it is used (ie. evil-minded people or unbelievers) is made clear... i hope this is okay with everybody..

Ashegan,

Maybe we should look more closely at the basic truths of Vedas, from which both Arya Samaj and Hinduism derive their inspiration, to uncover the misunderstandings.

The following discussion topic is offered for this purpose in a spirit of enquiry.

Brahma, God, Allah, and Static

I would welcome your participation in this discussion.

What are those Vedic truths? As a non-Indian and non-Hindu (I have not been through a conversion ceremony and I'm sorry that I didn't have a Hindu wedding), I confess that I find the Vedas a mystery. I have read English translation of Rig Veda verses, which are invocations to God, meditations on his essence, and prayers for blessings.

Let's start a new thread to identify those Vedic truths. At this stage, let's not confound it with the teachings and doctrines of other religions.

Julie Maitra

Wecome to the discussion, Julie.

We may very well start with the Vedic concept of BRAHMAM and compare it to the concept of hundreds of gods worshipped in Hinduism.

These forms in Hinduism originally symbolized the principles enunciated in the Vedas. For example, refer to the following excerpt from the article, CAN GOD BE DEFINED?

"The certainty that one KNOWS, exists neither in matter, energy, space, and time, nor in the reflection of them in the mind. One must dive deep into abstraction to gain that certainty of complete understanding. There is nothing wrong with using images and symbols to get at the deeper meaning. But one must discriminate between the image and the experience it symbolizes. Mathematics uses symbols to gain insights. Language uses symbols to communicate. Religion uses all physical manifestations to experience its source. All knowledge has been gained through the observation of physical phenomena. It is rare that one can experience knowledge directly in a single step.

"So, a Hindu symbolizes the various aspects of existence and spirituality to arrive at the deeper understanding of God. BRAHMA symbolizes creation, VISHNU symbolizes survival, and MAHESH symbolizes destruction. Together, this TRINITY describes the cycle of Existence: Create, Survive, Destroy. This is the great abstraction which the Hindu mind reached about ten thousand years ago. These symbols and idols in Hinduism are nothing in themselves. They are there to remind certain abstractions underlying all life. To a Hindu, all such symbols and idols are "educational aids." They drop into relative insignificance to the degree one gains an awareness of God."

Unfortunately, the practice of Bhakti in Hinduism has degenerated into putting symbols above the truths they symbolize.

We need to restore Bhakti back to the sublime practice it was intended to be.

I am reposting this message originally posted elsewhere by Sri Jha, as it is of great use for all Hindus, new and old
___________________________________.
1. Here is the explanation of Bindu, the dot on the forehead of a Hindu,
by Sri Ed Vishwanathan

http://www.indolink.com/Forum/Arts-Culture/messages/940.html

2. Namaskar or Namaste

The sanskrit word Namaskar is derived from na (NOT) + ma (MINE) + kara (TO DO),
which means 'I bow to the divine in you.' It is an act of invoking “not me” (but Thou).
More can be found at

http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/namaste1.html

3. Articles on Swastika

I had earlier posted these links on Swastika

http://www.bhaarat.com/~shashi/SUDHEER/omkar.html
http://www.gbso.net/ZUKI/swastika.htm
http://www.inquest.demon.co.uk/royal/swastika.html

Some articles on difference between Hindu Swastika and the symbol used by Nazis may be found at

http://www.igc.apc.org/iearn/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/swastika.html
http://www.igc.apc.org/iearn/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/swastika.html
http://www.ct.rochester.edu/issues/97spring/970417/swastika-let.html

4. An article on AUM

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/9089/hr/aum.html

5. Sri Swami Sivananda explains DURGA PUJA OR NAVARATRI at

http://www.rsl.ukans.edu/~pkanagar/divine/religions/navaratri.htm

Another wonderful website on Hindu Dharma

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/2178/