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madan
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Year of Mahabharata, By Saroj Bala Pioneer Daily, 26 Feb 2004
For thousands of years, we have believed in the divinity of Shri Krishna. For us he was a Karmayogi par excellence who gave us action oriented philosophy of life in the form of Bhagavad Gita. But questions have constantly haunted us as to whether Krishna was a historical or mythical character and whether the war of Mahabharata was actually fought.
Till recently, we did not have the wherewithal to search for and establish the truth. But modern scientific tools and techniques like computers with planetarium softwares, advancements in archaeological and marine archaeological techniques, earth-sensing satellite photography and thermo-luminescence dating methods, all have made it possible to establish the authenticity and dating of many events narrated in ancient texts like the Mahabharata. Recent archaeo-astronomical studies, results of marine-archaeological explorations and overwhelming archaeological evidence have established the historicity and dating of many events narrated in the Mahabharata. These have led to the conclusion that Mahabharata War was actually fought in 1478 BC and Shri Krishna's Dwarka City got submerged under the sea in 1443 BC.
Astronomical Evidence: In the Mahabharata references to sequential solar and lunar eclipses as also references to some celestial observations have been made. Dr RN Iyengar, the great scientist of Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, examined relevant references and searched for the compatible dates by making use of planetarium software (PVIS and EZC). He concluded that most of these references were internally consistent and that the eclipses and celestial observations of Mahabharata belong to the period 1493 BC-1443 BC of Indian History, (refer Indian Journal of History of Science/38.2/2003/77-115).
In the Mahabharata, there are references to three sequential solar eclipses and some other planetary positions. Reference to the first solar eclipse comes in the Sabha Parva (79.29), graphically described by Vidur when Pandavas start their journey to the forest on being banished for 12 years of life in exile and one year of life incognito after they had lost everything in the game of dice. After 13 years of exile and incognito life, the Pandavas returned to Hastinapur and demanded their kingdom back, but Duryodhana refused. Several efforts to prevent war failed and war became imminent.
There is a reference to the second solar eclipse in the Bhisma Parva (3.29), following a lunar eclipse occurring within the same fortnight a few days before the actual war of Mahabharata. These eclipses occurred after 14-15 years of the first solar eclipse The epic also refers to some unfavourable planetary positions between the second solar eclipse and the beginning of the war on Kartika Purnima (Bhisma Parva 3.14 to 3.19). On Kartika Krishna Ashtami, Saturn was near Rohini and Mars was between Jayestha and Anuradha. Twenty two days later, on Kartika Purnima, Saturn was near Rohini, Mars was near Jayestha (probably Uranus) was between Citra and Swati.
Another white planet (possibly Jupiter) had moved from Purva-bhadra to Uttar-bhadra. Reference to the third solar eclipse comes in the Mausala Parva (2.19 to 2.20) occurring in the 36th year of the Mahabharata War. This was visible from the city of Dwarka, which is stated to have been subsequently submerged under the sea. For these observations to be internally consistent, there should have been three solar eclipses within 50 years. The first one and the second one after a gap of 14-15 years should have been visible from Kurukshetra whereas the third solar eclipse should have been visible from Dwarka after 35 years of the second one.
Marine Archaeological explorations around Dwarka: The on-shore and off-shore explorations carried out in and around Dwarka during last 50 years have revealed that Dwarka was a prosperous city in ancient times, which was destroyed and reconstructed several times. The work of great excavators like ZD Ansari and MS Mate and chance discovery of temples of 9th century AD and 1st century AD buried near the present Dwarkadhish Temple, prompted setting up of a Marine Archaeology Centre jointly by the National Institute of Oceanography and the Archaeological Survey of India. A project for marine archaeological explorations in Dwarka was initiated under the dynamic leadership of great marine archaeologist Dr Rao, who has the distinction of being awarded "The World Ship Trust Award" for outstanding research in this field.
Dr Rao's team consisted of expert under-water explorers, trained diver-photographers and archaeologists. The technique of geophysical survey was combined with the use of echo-sounders, mud-penetrators, sub-bottom profilers and under-water metal detectors. This team carried out 12 marine archaeological expeditions between the year 1983 to 1992 AD and articles/antiquities recovered were sent to Physical Research Laboratory for dating. By using thermo-luminescence, carbon dating and other modern scientific techniques, artifacts were found to be belonging to the period 15th to 18th century BC. In his great work, The Lost City of Dwarka, Dr Rao has given scientific details of these discoveries and artifacts.
Conclusions arrived at after carrying out these under-water archaeological explorations support and validate the dates arrived at through astronomical calculations. These also prove that the reconstructed city of Dwarka was a prosperous port town, and that it was in existence for about 60-70 years in the 15th century BC before being submerged under the sea in the year 1443 BC.
Attempts have also been made to determine the year of Mahabharata from the details available in scriptures which include Puranas. When events are unrecorded for quite some time and are passed on to the succeeding generations through Shruti and Smriti, the inaccuracies and myths get mixed with reality on account of differences in the perceptions of different individuals. However, it is for the objective rational individual mind to find out and differentiate fact from fiction. Important information, including the genealogy charts of rulers after Yudhishthira, are available in Srimad Bhagvatam, Matsya Puran and Vayu Purana. On the basis of such evidence, famous historian Lord Cunningham assigned the year 1424 BC to the War of Mahabharata.
Evidences referred to earlier point more to the probability that nobody had come to India from Central Asia or from any other place. In fact, Indo-Aryan kings and warriors had come to Kurukshetra in their war chariots from all over India to participate in the Mahabharata War and that a whole lot of people got killed in that war. The killers as well as the killed, the victors as well as the vanquished, the charioteers as well as the foot soldiers, all were Indians who had already experienced thousands of years of prosperous and advanced civilisation. Archaeology also records a continuous indigenous evolution of Vedic civilisation going back to 5000 BC at sites like Mehrgarh and Koldi.
It is sad that so far we have not known even a fraction about our ancient civilisation and cultural achievements. Detailed factual data in our ancient texts and Sanskrit manuscripts is beckoning us to carry out further research. By making use of modern scientific instruments and techniques we must discover the true facts about our ancient past. If we do, we may be able to gather supportive evidences to reassert that ours was the oldest civilisation in the world and that our ancestors, the Vedic Aryans, had travelled from India to various parts of Asia and Europe to spread our knowledge, civilisation and culture. When this is recorded we would be able to hold our heads higher and be able to take on the future with greater confidence.
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madan
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Year of the Mahabharata (More Details), By Saroj Bala Daily Pioneer, 27 Feb 2004
From references to three sequential solar eclipses within a period of 50 years and other celestial observations in the Mahabharata (listed in the article on February 26) Dr Iyengar prepared a list of compatible dates. It was concluded that these eclipses along with the stated planetary positions were observable during the period 1493 BC-1443 BC because the planetarium software shows: (i) On March 19, 1493 BC, there was solar eclipse visible from Kurukshetra. (ii) After about 15 years, on June 1, 1478 BC, there was a solar eclipse visible from Kurukshetra which was preceded by a lunar eclipse on the same fortnight on May 16, 1478 BC. (iii) About three months later, there was Kartika Krishna Ashtami on September 20, 1478 BC, when Saturn was near Rohini (in Bhar-Kritika) and Mars was between Jayestha and Anuradha. iv) Three weeks later, on October 12, 1478 BC, there was Kartika Purnima when the war actually started. On that day, Saturn was still near Rohini (as it actually moved from Bhar Kritt to Rohini between June 1, 1478 BC, to November 10, 1478 BC. Mars was near Jayestha. Uranus, which probably is referred to as rough planet, was between Citra and Swati. Jupiter had moved from Purva-bhadra to Uttar-bhadra on October 12, 1478 BC. (v) In the 36th year after Mahabharata war in October 1478 BC, a solar eclipse could be seen from Dwarka on January 7, 1443 BC. Thus as per archaeo-astronomical calculations, Mahabharata War was fought in 1478 BC and Dwarka city got submerged in 1443 BC. These conclusions are corroborated by archaeologists as well as historians who have analysed the genealogy charts of rulers given in the Puranas. The dates of artefacts and antiquities recovered during underwater explorations by the team headed by Dr SR Rao were determined by Physical Research Laboratory by using latest scientific techniques and the dates determined fully corroborate the dates calculated through astronomical calculations as is apparent from the following conclusions: (i) The land for building Dwarka had been reclaimed from the sea between 16th to 15th century BC and a fortified city was built on boulder packing with outer gateway to the sea and inner gateway to Gomti. This corroborates the references in the Mahabharata as per which Dwarka was built by Shri Krishna after reclaiming the land from the sea and it was built only a few years before the Game of Dice in 1493 BC. (ii) The thermo-luminescence dating of lustrous redware pottery items found during explorations reveal that these were 3520 years old (around 16th-15th century BC). (iii) The most famous rectangular seal with engraved motifs of bull, unicorn and goat found in trench UW6 in the seabed was dated to 16th century BC. The seal corroborates the references made in the ancient manuscripts that every citizen of Dwarka was required to carry a mudra (seal) as a mark of identification. (iv) A copper bell and a lota, brass-items including u-shaped objects with holes at both ends and a bronze bell, all were dated as belonging to 15th century BC. Stone anchors with double holes and triangular prismatic stone anchors recovered from under the sea were similar to the ones found in Lothal excavations belonging to 23rd century BC. (v) A votive jar with seven characters inscribed was found. Reading based on Semitic-Indus-Phonetic value revealed that script is old Indo-Aryan and similar to the other Indus seal inscriptions. The date assigned to this votive jar and inscriptions is 15th-14th century BC. (vi) Three iron nails and a stake, four potsherds and one small bottle of iron were dated 16th-15th century BC indicating limited use of iron. Other archaeological excavations carried out in the areas around the cities referred to in Mahabharata, for example Mathura, Hastinapur, Indraprastha, Kurukshetra and Dwarka, show that Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation flourished in these areas between **** 3400-1500 BC **** and Mahabharata war put an end to that era of prosperity in 15th century BC. The excavations carried out in Lothal in Gujarat have proved the existence of very advanced civilisation between 2300 BC to 1600 BC. The town was divided into the dock, the acropolis and the industrial, commercial, residential sectors. Artefacts recovered include gold jewellery and copper utensils. Archaeological surveys at Kalibangan in Rajasthan have identified the existence of a planned fortified city between 2500-1700 BC. Photographs taken by American earth-sensing satellite known as Landsat have confirmed that Saraswati described in the Rigveda as flowing from the "mountain to the sea" was indeed a great river before 2000 BC. Archaeological explorations on the ancient beds of the Saraswati, for instance at Kunal near Kurukshetra and at Banawali in Punjab, have confirmed the existence of highly advanced civilisation during 3400-1500 BC. Artefacts excavated include silver jewellery and copper and bronze articles. Taken as a whole, archaeological excavations establish the continuous evolution of Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation between 3400-1500 BC culminating in the Mahabharata period. The inhabitants of all the excavated places had similar ethnic features, spoke similar languages, followed similar religious rites which were Vedic in nature, knew about horse and rice, had advanced knowledge of mathematics, made extensive use of copper and had discovered the use of iron. These discoveries match with the details in the Epic as also with the belief of the historians that the use of iron was discovered in India in 16th century BC. The War of Mahabharata acted as a watershed, putting an end to the "copper age" and ushering in the "iron age" in 15th century BC. Archaeological excavations thus support the conclusion that Mahabharata War was fought in 1478 BC. These important pieces of evidence prove Mahabharata is not myth but history and its central character Shri Krishna was a man with extraordinary abilities, around whom legends were built over the years. The common man started having faith in the divinity of this Supreme Hero, who for them is God incarnate. It is for the rational mind to differentiate facts from fiction and then discover the true facts about our glorious past by using modern scientific research methods and techniques.
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MADAN: you may want to check this site out too! Very interesting. Here is the contents, I zipped out, just in case the link does not work!
>> COINS OF INDO-GREEK DYNASTIES
After death of Alexander in 323 BC, his generals, known as diadochi started fighting for his massive empire. Seleukos Nictator, a friend and general of Alexander proclaimed himself King of Persia,Bactria (afghanistan) and Syria. He founded a dynasty named after him, widely known as Seleukid dynasty. He had his capital at Babylon and invaded India (modern Punjab, located in northern India and Pakistan) in 304 BC, which was then Muaryan empire ruled by Chandragupta Maurya. Chandragupta Maurya (Sandrocottus according to Greek Historians) put an army of hundred thousand men and 9000 war elephants on battle field! The sheer number of men on battlefield and the battle elephants (I guess Greeks were more worried of beasts rather than Indian soldiers) made Seluekos change his mind. Wisely, Seleucus concluded an alliance and gave his daughter in marriage to Chandragupta. He also transferred Kabul, Kandahar (modern Afganistan) and Baluchistan (modern Pakistan) to Chandragupta. Chandragupta in turn presented him with 500 war elephants. Seleukos sent an ambassador named Magasthenes to Chandragupta's court, who repeatedly visited Patliputra (modern patana in Bihar state), capital of Chandragupta. Magasthenes has written detailed description of India and Chandragupta's reign, which is perhaps the earliest description of ancient India by a foreign traveller. Seleukos minted Coins bearing his name which are rare gold staters and silver tetradrachms/drachms (some day I shall introduce the image).
In 281 BC Seleukos was assasinated but the kings who followed him maintained friendly relationship with mighty Mauryan emperors for some time (records exist that Antiochus II was in friendly terms with Chandragupta's son Bindusara). Seleucid empire disintegrated soon after assasination of Seleukos into Parthia (Arsaces as King), Syria (Antiochus I as king) and Bactria (Diodotus as king). During 151-150 BC, a Seleukid pretender, Alexander Balas, Attalos II of Pergamum, Ariarathes V of Cappadocia, Ptolemy VI and the Roman Senate, arrived in Ake-Ptolemais, to lay claim to the Seleukid throne. Within months they won a decisive military victory over Demetrios I, who was killed in battle. With the defeat of Demetrios I, Phoenicia and Southern Syria, disputed territory that separated the Seleukids and Ptolemies was now in the hand of an Egyptian ally. To cement the alliance between the two empires, Ptolemy VI offered his daughter in marriage, Cleopatra Thea, to Alexander Balas. Shown below is the coin minted by Demetrios I, Seleukid Kings of Syria.
Demetrios I, the Soter 162-150 BC Seleukid King of Syria Silver drachm Weight: 4.2 gm Obverse: Diademed head Reverse: Cornucopia Minted at Antioch, Yr 162 BC Reference: Newell 134
Diodotos was a Seleucid governor of Bactria who seized the opportunity and declared himself king of Bactria (256 BC). He soon issued gold and copper coins bearing his portrait on obverse and Greek deities (prominently Zeus) on reverse. He is considered to be the first ruler of Indo-Greek dynasties which ruled north-western part of India, called Bactria . He was followed by many kings of Greek origin who ruled this region for little more than 100 years till arrival of next conquorers, Kushans.
Diodotos 250-230 BC Indo-Greek Dynasty Bronze Unit Weight: 1.00 gm MAC#1607
After death of last great Mauryan King, Ashoka, India was disintegrated into many small kingdoms, which provided great opportunity for Indo-Greek kings for eastern expansion of their kingdoms. Seleucid monarch, Antiochus III (223-187 BC) carried out the third Greek (first Greek invasion is considered to be by Alexander while second is by Seleucus) invasion of India in 206 BC. The first stop was the Kabul valley in Afghanistan, then ruled by Mauryan governor, Subhagsena or Subhashsena ( Sophagasenus according to Greek historians). Interestingly, the invasion did not escalate into a expected massive bloodshed but resulted into exchange of gifts and Antiochus withdrew from India. Subhagsena is listed in names of Mauryan princes and also Yadava dynasty as descendants of Pradyumana. Most Probably, he was a prince of ancient Vrishni vansha (claims descent from lord Krishna) and also related to Mauruyan dynasty. Possibly he was a grandson of Ashoka or Ashoka's son Kunala. Initially, he ruled as governor of Kabul valley from 206 BC but soon assumed independance on Shunga coup in 185 BC. After withdrawal of Antiochus from India, Euthydemos consolidated his realm in Bactria by re-oraganizing the currency and mints. Euthydemos died in 190 BC and succeded by his son Demetrius. Demetrius (190-171 BC) was the first Indo-Greek ruler who successfully brought most of the Afganistan, Punjab and Sindh under his control. He defeated Subhagsena, now king of Kabul and proudely took a title `King of Indians'. The descendants of Subhagsena did not die out but went on to found state of zabul (or Gujni in Afghansistan) before retreating back to Indus/Punjab and are current Bhatti rulers of Jaisalmer princely state (modern Rajasthan).
Demetrios I 200-190 BC Indo-greek King of Baktria Silver drachm Weight: 4.1 gm Obverse: Head of Demetrios wearing elephant's skin Reverse: Herakles holding club and lion's skin
The coins stuck by Euthydemus, Demetrius and Antimachus (weriearing kausia cap and half mocking smile) are purely Greek in style, in language and in weight. These coins are THE BEST example of art as applied to portraiture, anywhwere in the world. Such beautiful coins depicting lifelike portraits of these kings have no parallel in history. After so called `conquest of India', Demetrius minted coins showing himself wearing elephant's scalp which represent the excellent example of portrait coins of Indo-Greeks. Demetrius was followed by two of his generals, Apollodotus I and Menander who proclaimed themselves to be kings of this house. Both ruled in different regions of North Western India.
MENANADER (160-145 BC)
Menander 160-145 BC Silver drachm, Bilingual Obverse: Bust of King, Greek legends Reverse: Pallas, Kharosthi legends Minted at Panjshir Weight: 2.33 gm MAC#1791
Menander is the only Yavana (person of Greek origin in Indian language) king who has become celebrated in ancient Indian literature. He is known as `Milinda' who had his capital at Sakala (modern Sialkot in Pakistan, Euthymedia in Greek). He one of the two leading characters of a Pali (ancient language of India) treatise Milindpanha (Questions of Milinda). This book describes fundamental principles of Buddhist philosophy which is narrated in form of a dialogue between King Milinda and Buddhist scholar Nagasena. Thus Menander is well known for Indian historians as a philosopher with superior knowledge in various schools of thought and not as a mighty conqueror. He was born at Charikar, a country between Kabul and Panjshir rivers, a connecting link between Bactria and India. Menander has earned tremendous fame as a great ruler not only in India but also in Greek world. There is no doubt that he was great conqueror and ruled over large area. His coins are found in all of modern Afganistan, Pakistan and north western region of modern India.
The numismatic record of Menander is extraordinarily good which shows greater variety and wider distribution than those of any other Indo-Greek ruler. Shown above is a fine example of his coin minted at Taxila (Takshshila). This is a bilingual coin with interrupted legends. On obverse is king throwing Javelin, the legends are in Greek, King Soter Menander while reverse shows Pallas Athene facing left with sloping shield. The legends on reverse are in ancient Indian language Prakrit, written in Kharoshthi script which reads Maharajasa tratasa Menandrasa (-of the king, saviour, Menander) .
APOLLODOTUS I (180-160 BC)
Apollodotus I 180-160 BC Silver drachm Obverse: Elephant, Greek legends Reverse: Humped bull, Kharosthi legends minted at Taxila Weight: 2.38 gm Reference: MIG#207h, MAC#1754
Another general of Demetrius who became king and minted beautiful coins. Shown above is very atteactive coin mintd by him which is square in shape. Before arrival of Indo-Greeks, local population of his newly acquired kingdom had been using rectangular/square shaped punch-marked coins for most transactions. Perhaps this fact had enfluenced him to issue square shaped, bilingual coinage which can be accepted readily by local merchants. Secondly, to keep up with Indian tradition of punching animals like Elephant and Bull on punch-marked coin, this coin also bear these two animals on the coin. The legends on reverse are in Prakrit, written in Kharoshthi script which reads Maharajasa tratarasa Apaladatasa(-of the king, saviour, Apollodotus ).
PHILOXENUS (110-80 BC)
Philoxenus 110-80 BC Silver tetradrachm Minted at Pushkalavati Weight: 7.32 gm MAC#1959
Bactrian king Antimachus claimed that he was a successor of Diodotus and thus belonged to house of Euthydemus. He ruled in lower Kabul Valley consisting of Jalalabad and Peshwar districts (part of modern Afganistan and Pakistan). He was succeded by Philoxenus and Diomedes who jointly ruled the western Indo-Greek kingdom from river Indus to Qunduz region of bactria.Their coins depicts king wearing flat cap (kausia) sitting on prancing horse. Philoxenus kingdom consited of Valley of Jhelum river. His coins are found only to the east of Jalalabad district. Philoxenus and Diomedes were succeded by two pairs of kings: Archebios, Peucolaus and Theophiles Nicias. Archebios and Peucolaus issued coins in Kabul valley and Koht in 80-60 BC while Theophiles and Nicias struck their coins in Gandhara. Shown above is fine example of coin minted by Philoxenus. On obverse is king throwing Javelin with his name below the portrait while on reverse is king mounted on prancing horse. This is another bilingual coin with Greek legends on obverse while Kharoshti legends Maharajasa apadihatasa Philasinasa on reverse.
NICIAS (80-60 BC)
Niciuas 80-60 BC Silver tetradrachm Weight: 9.09 gm
Most likely Nicias was junior colleague of Theophilos who might have succeded to the kingdom of Gandhara. Coins of Nicias are found mostly in Jhelum valley (modern Pakistan). Shown above is a nice example of his coin which is bilingual. On obverse the legends are in Greek with his name at the bottom of portrait while reverse shows Pallas facing left with sloping shield. The legends on reverse are in Kharaoshti which reads `Maharajasa tratarasa Nikiasa'.
HERMAEUS (40-1 BC)
The kings of house of Eucratides ruled in the region south of Hidu Kush and upper Kabul valley (southern half of modern Afganistan). Hermaeus belonged to this house and minted coins depicting Zeus enthroned. Hermaeus was the last Indo-Greek king. His kingdom was invaded successively by Shakas (Scythias), Pahalavas (parthians) and lastly by Kushanas. It is very likely that Indo-Greeks were followed by Pahalavas which in turn were replaced by Kushanas. Coins bearing last Yavana King Hermaeus and first Kushana ruler Kujula Kadphises are available indicating eventual passing of Kabul valley and whole of North east India to Kushana dynasty, the next suzerain power in ancient India.
Shown below are two of his coins portraying him on obverse. On reverse one can see Zeus enthroned. Both are bilingual coins with Greek legends on obverse while Kharoshti legends Maharajasa tratarasa Heramayasa on reverse.
Hermaeus 40-1 BC Silver tetradrachm Minted at Chach Weight: 9.17 gm MAC#2016
Hermaeus 40-1 BC Silver tetradrachm Minted at Kapisa Weight: 12.72 gm MAC#2034
The portraits on all Indo-greeks coins are very realistic which express powerful features and minute personal details very clearly. This indicate that all the engravers were from same school of art and obviously very well familiar with Hellinstic art. Indian coinage is greatly enfluenced by coinage of Indo-Greeks. The policy of rulers to show their subject their true appearance was totally unknown in Indian subcontinent. The first Indian King who issued coins bearing his portrait was Saubhuti (Sophytes or Sopeithes according to Greek historians). He ruled in Bactria or Panjab in 315-305 BC and minted Greek styled coins (I am hoping to get his coin which are just too expensive). His silver coins were greatly enfluenced by his contemporary Bactrian Greek ruler Seleucus Nictator. He is the first Indian ruler whose name and portrait appears on a coin. The reverse shows cock standing right>>
http://www.med.unc.edu/~nupam/greek1.html
I was doing a search on BHOJRAJ (who may be the JOB of OT) I am not sure yet.
WHen I read JOB under OT, there were 3 friends of him who may be descendents of ABRAHM, HARAN and NAHOR..(names I will post later here)
BUT ELIHU could be one of the characters, descendent of LORD RAMA only. For it says in the OT that ELIHU was a descendant of "RAM" CLAN.
Have you read the OT at any time?
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http://www.paknews.org/cgi-paknews/link.cgi?link=pakhistory/pakhistory#hindudharma
http://www.paknews.org/cgi-paknews/link.cgi?link=pakhistory/pakhistory#indusvalley
"At Harappa, a temple of the glitzy Mesopotamian variety has yet to be found. Kenoyer's archeological evidence suggests that the city got its start as a farming village around 3300 B.C. Situated near the Ravi River, one of several tributaries of the ancient Indus River system of Pakistan and northwestern India, Harappa lay on a fertile flood plain. Good land and a reliable food supply allowed the village to thrive, but the key to urbanization was its location at the crossroads of several major trading routes"
This is what it says in this article. Please read.
So when the continental drift was predicted back in 3000BC or earlier the Hindus might have moved away from that region of mesopotemia it looks like.
300 yrs give or take this way or that way, BRIHA U mentioned it and many evidences now show that SANATANA DHARMISTS were living near mesopotemian region along the sides of all other tribes there, before the ABRAHM split it up.
ABRAHAM sinned w HAGAR and there was no mention of BRAHMA as a primary special DEITY in INDUS valley civilization at all.
please post your comments..anyone from Hindutva??
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